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Palmetto and avid

Palmetto:
It's true that a typical end-user won't be going to the store to purchase a SPARCstation or an AS/400, but avid wasn't making that point. He just talked about Linux being "desktop ready", whatever that means, and suggested that Linux doesn't support much hardware. That's patently false, of course, since Linux-based OSes support more hardware -- even more common desktop system hardware -- out of the box than any other operating system in the history of desktop systems, but your complaint was about my reference to platform portability.

It's relevant. I kinda went off the reservation in my enthusiasm, when talking about the AS/400, but a Sun SPARCstation is in fact a desktop system: it's a high-end workstation, and helps to make the point that not only is Linux "desktop ready", but it's ready for far more desktop system platforms than Windows will likely ever be.

If he had confined his comments specifically to PC-compatible desktop systems, I would have left that point out, but I wanted to make sure I didn't leave a (potentially relevant) base uncovered in the discussion.

avid: I'll do this point by point.

"Maybe you should enter marketing"
I'm sure I'd be good at it, except I refuse to lie. C'est la vie.

"you linux worshippers"
I'm not a Linux worshipper. In fact, I only "like" Linux in contrast to MS Windows and, to much lesser degree, MacOS X. I don't even like the licensing terms of the Linux kernel much -- I just dislike it less than Microsoft's "screw the user" model. In fact, I'm not even using Linux on this machine. It's interesting that you assume anyone that disagrees with you about how crappy Linux is must be a "Linux worshipper". I think perhaps you're projecting a bit about that whole OS worship thing.

"you guys have all the answers as to why it is so much easier for the average computer novice to use linux instead of windows."
I'm not sure whether you meant that the way you said it or meant something that's normally more likely to be said. I'll address both.

1. Assuming you meant exactly what you said, I don't know if Linux is easier to learn than Windows for a complete computer novice. I know, at least, that its difficulty is very close to Windows, whether it's slightly more or slightly less difficult. When you're starting with no experience with computers at all, I rather suspect there's no measurable difference in difficulty getting used to either one of them, initially. Then again, in my comments to which you responded, I wasn't talking about ease of use to the complete novice, anyway -- I was talking about readiness for the desktop and hardware compatibility.

2. Assuming you meant that some of us claim that Linux is easier for the average desktop system end-user, that depends on what you mean by "easier". If you mean that putting a typical MS Windows end-user in front of a Linux system (or, worse yet, in front of a system with no OS on it, with a Linux CD in the drive) would magically result in the end-user being more happily at home, then no, that's not what I think at all. MS Windows is far more accessible to someone that has no experience with any operating system other than MS Windows. There's a learning curve involved in making the switch, and there are habits to be unlearned in making the transition from MS Windows to a unixlike OS. If you mean that someone that is equally familiar with both Linux-based OSes and MS Windows would find Linux easier to use, then yeah, I do believe that. Perhaps you should take a poll of all people who are equally familiar with both: you'll certainly find that the vast majority find Linux easier to use. Back when I had reached a point of familiarity with Linux such that I was generally as comfortable with its quirks as I was with MS Windows' quirks, I certainly found it easier to get things done with Linux-based OSes than with MS Windows, and my experience teaches me that it's the same for at least 98% of other people familiar with Linux systems.

Perhaps you should consider the notion that if people have "all the answers" it's worth considering whether there's any truth in those answers, rather than just assuming everyone's wrong when they disagree with your somewhat less-informed opinion as a Microsoft Windows user. Those who are regular users of both MS Windows and Linux-based OSes, and people who are experts in both, might know something about the comparative benefits and detriments of using the two OSes.

"maybe you should start by removing windows from all of your client sights and giving them linux."
That would be irresponsible. I work with clients often enough for whom MS Windows is actually a better operational fit. The massive pile of problems that attend MS Windows use does not change the fact that there are times it's the better option for serving specific business needs. When I work for a client, I serve that client's interests to the best of my ability, even when it involves setting the client up with systems that are later going to prove to be a pain in my butt.

"if linux was ready for the desktop, then circuit city would have as much software for linux as they do for ms."
I find it interesting that you do not seem able to separate the concepts of popularity and quality.

"and your statement 'Why would we want that? You'd have to actually make Linux software more difficult to install for it to be 'as easy to install on [Linux] as it is on [Windows].' is bull@#$! and you know it. 'recompile this, tweak that, rewrite some code here and there and the software is ready to use. '"
Clearly, you've never used, or even heard much about, a package manager (other than Windows Update, which is about the most brain-dead, ornery, neutered and crippled, unpleasant package manager in the world). Until you've actually learned how to use a package manager like Synaptic and/or APT (which should take all of fifteen minutes, if you're really slow on the uptake), I'll just chalk your absurd statements on the subject of the ease of software installation up to rampant, willful ignorance.

"and who cares if it won't install on mac, as400 and the like? how many average users are ever going to need to do that."
That depends on your definition of "average", I suppose. Anyway, average users are not the only users in the world. Get over your narrow world-view.

"average users don't want to as you out it 'know something about your computer, and fight with ornery binary drivers from vendors to get it working properly.'"
That's why it's so nice that Linux supports far, far more hardware "out of the box". Unlike you, I was actually providing something of a balanced and honest assessment of the comparative difficulties of the two OSes for less-expert users: you chose to use that as an excuse to try to claim the entire post was "wrong" somehow. Meanwhile, you just have an opinion of Linux-based OSes as some kind of unmitigated usability disaster, or at least present that image of your opinion, and seem to absolutely refuse to actually learn anything substantive about OSes other than Windows. That doesn't really instill any confidence in the validity of your so-called arguments.

Posted: 01/29/2007 @ 10:38 AM (PST)

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Read original item: Linux is not easier to use than Windows and it never will

This article was nothing but a flameDanLM | 01/22/2007 @ 08:31 AM (PST)

I called this a flame editorial Steve because:DanLM | 01/22/2007 @ 12:13 PM (PST)

I agree with Droolinrchabo@... | 01/23/2007 @ 05:29 AM (PST)

you're just plain ignorantmatt.chown@... | 01/25/2007 @ 10:38 AM (PST)

Does that make you FLAVORED ignorant?jdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 11:59 AM (PST)

I failed wood shopPalmetto | 01/25/2007 @ 02:36 PM (PST)

I used to be a master wood worker ...stress junkie | 01/25/2007 @ 04:06 PM (PST)

I had trouble putting worms and minnows on fishing hooksPalmetto | 01/26/2007 @ 03:25 AM (PST)

This can be tested?edenpark@... | 01/25/2007 @ 08:15 PM (PST)

Here's my testajole | 02/05/2007 @ 03:36 PM (PST)

It's not that easy.apotheon | 02/06/2007 @ 01:42 AM (PST)

"... with at the adults table."Absolutely | 01/25/2007 @ 10:33 PM (PST)

A typo equals rude and imature?jdclyde | 01/26/2007 @ 06:36 AM (PST)

Flaming at the adult table?Absolutely | 01/26/2007 @ 11:37 AM (PST)

10 flagrant grammar mistakes that make you look stupid.Absolutely | 01/26/2007 @ 11:39 AM (PST)

Well saidDumphrey | 02/02/2007 @ 06:47 AM (PST)

spoon fed???avid | 01/27/2007 @ 06:57 PM (PST)

Why do they need to limit the choice of distro?Tony Hopkinson | 01/27/2007 @ 07:39 PM (PST)

I tried Ubuntudavidtristan@... | 01/28/2007 @ 11:38 PM (PST)

A decent XHTML editor . . .apotheon | 01/29/2007 @ 12:36 AM (PST)

Haven't tried ubuntu myselfTony Hopkinson | 01/29/2007 @ 02:07 PM (PST)

Haven't tried ubuntu myselfTony Hopkinson | 01/29/2007 @ 02:14 PM (PST)

Is that so?apotheon | 01/28/2007 @ 01:54 AM (PST)

YES ! [sitting here giggling]jackie40d@... | 01/28/2007 @ 08:40 AM (PST)

One nit to pick.Palmetto | 01/29/2007 @ 05:00 AM (PST)

Maybe you should enter marketingavid | 01/29/2007 @ 05:01 AM (PST)

Palmetto and avidapotheon | 01/29/2007 @ 10:38 AM (PST)

people who are experts in bothavid | 01/29/2007 @ 04:45 PM (PST)

Of course we're not.apotheon | 01/29/2007 @ 07:09 PM (PST)

my final word isavid | 01/29/2007 @ 07:18 PM (PST)

Huh?jmgarvin | 01/30/2007 @ 12:58 AM (PST)

Restrictions ???tony@... | 02/05/2007 @ 12:08 PM (PST)

tony, re: MS Windows complaintsapotheon | 02/05/2007 @ 12:56 PM (PST)

You can get Code Weaversjackie40d@... | 01/28/2007 @ 08:03 AM (PST)

wine / crossover officeJaqui | 01/28/2007 @ 08:21 AM (PST)

Actually Wine /WineX can play games and Codeweavers makes Cedegajmgarvin | 01/28/2007 @ 11:12 AM (PST)

Jaqui, re: WINEapotheon | 01/28/2007 @ 03:29 PM (PST)

Finally!! A comment that addresses the issue instead of showing off.law1938 | 01/29/2007 @ 01:04 PM (PST)

Actually every point made was factually incorrectTony Hopkinson | 01/29/2007 @ 02:26 PM (PST)

thank youavid | 01/29/2007 @ 07:25 PM (PST)

WrongOz_Media | 01/29/2007 @ 04:27 PM (PST)

perhaps your ms skillsavid | 01/29/2007 @ 07:28 PM (PST)

avid, re: MS Windows skillsapotheon | 01/31/2007 @ 12:02 PM (PST)

IF you knew Linux you'd KNOW....mdsmedia | 02/06/2007 @ 02:20 AM (PST)

I agreejackie40d@... | 02/06/2007 @ 04:41 AM (PST)

most hardware works out of the box ???avid | 02/07/2007 @ 02:33 PM (PST)

Yes -- most hardware works out of the box.apotheon | 02/07/2007 @ 05:12 PM (PST)

Market ShareProfKing | 03/23/2007 @ 08:51 AM (PDT)

surprisingAbsolutely | 03/23/2007 @ 07:54 PM (PDT)

Well I added 5 to the listjackie40d@... | 03/24/2007 @ 01:14 PM (PDT)

What does that make, 0.421% ?Absolutely | 03/25/2007 @ 01:40 AM (PDT)

First Impressionsjor55 | 03/23/2007 @ 03:17 AM (PDT)

Sorry about your experience with tech support.Absolutely | 03/23/2007 @ 07:57 PM (PDT)

technicality, but...GSG | 01/23/2007 @ 07:39 AM (PST)

Message has been deleted.SpectateSwamp | 01/25/2007 @ 01:00 PM (PST)

so true....ANDAgent 77 | 01/26/2007 @ 08:43 AM (PST)

...Agent 77 | 01/26/2007 @ 08:43 AM (PST)

nail on the headavid | 01/30/2007 @ 05:06 AM (PST)

"Easy to Use" locks you in.deadpan227@... | 02/10/2007 @ 12:56 PM (PST)

Smart move..dawgit | 02/10/2007 @ 03:22 PM (PST)

Thats for sure and thenjackie40d@... | 03/11/2007 @ 08:02 AM (PDT)

Linux isnt SUPPOSED ot be easier to use than Windows!Oz_Media | 01/29/2007 @ 04:23 PM (PST)

Linux isnt SUPPOSED ot be easier to use than Windows!Kev08-i'm bac | 01/31/2007 @ 11:26 AM (PST)

Easier in what way??mdsmedia | 02/06/2007 @ 08:07 AM (PST)

Windows must dieilya@... | 01/31/2007 @ 12:30 PM (PST)

Just don't get too caught up in that obsession.apotheon | 01/31/2007 @ 01:35 PM (PST)

I must concede that.Absolutely | 03/10/2007 @ 07:20 PM (PST)

Internet appliancesPalmetto | 03/11/2007 @ 04:00 AM (PDT)

Its why I left MS !jackie40d@... | 03/11/2007 @ 06:45 AM (PDT)

Actuallynyabdns | 02/09/2007 @ 08:06 AM (PST)

Linux is not Windows79spitfire | 03/09/2007 @ 05:43 AM (PST)

Yepers your right !jackie40d@... | 03/09/2007 @ 01:48 PM (PST)

Just another French Whiner.Thmiuatga | 03/23/2007 @ 05:10 AM (PDT)

French? ?:| Wine? ?:|dawgit | 03/23/2007 @ 08:54 AM (PDT)

Your poll doesn't account for same level of difficulty.stress junkie | 01/22/2007 @ 08:36 AM (PST)

Emotional it is....Steven S. Warren | 01/22/2007 @ 08:53 AM (PST)

I predict that you will come around.stress junkie | 01/22/2007 @ 09:28 AM (PST)

I will check it out......Steven S. Warren | 01/22/2007 @ 09:52 AM (PST)

Linux is not going to go awayj-mart@... | 01/24/2007 @ 07:12 PM (PST)

Why the problems with a ATI video card ?jackie40d@... | 03/11/2007 @ 08:10 AM (PDT)

elitist responces..Jaqui | 01/22/2007 @ 10:22 PM (PST)

If your track record on TR is any indication . . .apotheon | 01/23/2007 @ 08:38 AM (PST)

What the Heck are you talking about?Steven S. Warren | 02/27/2007 @ 12:36 PM (PST)

I'll let your post speak for itself.apotheon | 02/27/2007 @ 03:15 PM (PST)

Chad, you make stuff upSteven S. Warren | 02/28/2007 @ 10:43 AM (PST)

reading comprehensionapotheon | 02/28/2007 @ 01:29 PM (PST)

I have a differant experiance with linux help sites.clockmendergb@... | 01/25/2007 @ 06:53 AM (PST)

My experience with the Linux forums as wellrhomp2002@... | 01/25/2007 @ 08:59 AM (PST)

WHAT????????Agent 77 | 01/25/2007 @ 09:20 AM (PST)

I haven't visited enough Linux boards to attest to their 'tone', butAbsolutely | 02/28/2007 @ 02:42 PM (PST)

I'm betting on Linux, but...Prefbid II | 01/22/2007 @ 10:23 AM (PST)

I totally agree with you.stress junkie | 01/22/2007 @ 03:01 PM (PST)

That is one drawback I see to the Packaged Distro solution.shardeth | 01/25/2007 @ 08:23 AM (PST)

"Never" is an awfully long time...Palmetto | 01/22/2007 @ 08:56 AM (PST)

You are helpful! and have always been sincere when asking questionsSteven S. Warren | 01/22/2007 @ 09:05 AM (PST)

Try other web sites.Palmetto | 01/22/2007 @ 09:14 AM (PST)

YA = "Yet Another"stress junkie | 01/22/2007 @ 09:37 AM (PST)

there is a good one atjackie40d@... | 01/23/2007 @ 02:41 PM (PST)

Yep- it IS funnyTiggerTwo | 01/22/2007 @ 06:50 PM (PST)

You need to define your termsrhomp2002@... | 01/23/2007 @ 12:47 AM (PST)

RPMdawgit | 01/23/2007 @ 03:10 AM (PST)

Thank youSteven S. Warren | 01/23/2007 @ 06:08 AM (PST)

You refer to "Linux" but this is the first post....mdsmedia | 02/06/2007 @ 08:52 AM (PST)

one correction, one piece of informationapotheon | 02/06/2007 @ 12:26 PM (PST)

Try out Xandros Professional 4.0 Forumintrepi@... | 01/22/2007 @ 11:22 AM (PST)

Linux vs. Windows...Raymond Danner | 01/23/2007 @ 09:23 AM (PST)

Interestingly...shardeth | 01/23/2007 @ 10:04 AM (PST)

Never?shardeth | 01/22/2007 @ 09:03 AM (PST)

A lot must change......Steven S. Warren | 01/22/2007 @ 09:07 AM (PST)

"Linux routers and boxes of Linux"Neon Samurai | 01/22/2007 @ 11:53 AM (PST)

Netgear is linuxjdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 06:02 AM (PST)

couldn't tell if you agreed or disagreed with my commentNeon Samurai | 01/25/2007 @ 10:41 AM (PST)

I was SUPPORTING your commentjdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 12:07 PM (PST)

As muchDumphrey | 02/02/2007 @ 07:41 AM (PST)

Losing ground, not lost the fightjdclyde | 02/02/2007 @ 12:54 PM (PST)

Don't say that too lauddawgit | 02/02/2007 @ 01:32 PM (PST)

I reallyDumphrey | 02/08/2007 @ 05:24 AM (PST)

Every time I go injackie40d@... | 01/23/2007 @ 02:26 PM (PST)

You're wasting your time and theirsPalmetto | 01/24/2007 @ 10:17 AM (PST)

Common Business Sensetony@... | 02/06/2007 @ 07:57 AM (PST)

My first copy of RedHatjdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 06:09 AM (PST)

Same Song - Over and Over Againrfdudley@... | 01/23/2007 @ 01:21 AM (PST)

I can't claim the title of devotee...shardeth | 01/23/2007 @ 08:49 AM (PST)

Do you remember Dos and Windows 3.11???Dave the Computer Guy | 01/22/2007 @ 09:11 AM (PST)

Now my head hurts.stress junkie | 01/22/2007 @ 09:44 AM (PST)

Let's hear it forTony Hopkinson | 01/22/2007 @ 09:55 AM (PST)

I'm going to catch hell for thisPalmetto | 01/22/2007 @ 11:34 AM (PST)

I think Dave TCG made a good point.stress junkie | 01/22/2007 @ 03:18 PM (PST)

sort of a lot of truthdawgit | 01/22/2007 @ 03:33 PM (PST)

You know Dell isjackie40d@... | 01/23/2007 @ 02:35 PM (PST)

Please substantiatePalmetto | 01/24/2007 @ 04:54 AM (PST)

not exactly . . .apotheon | 01/24/2007 @ 01:21 PM (PST)

That's what I suspected.Palmetto | 01/24/2007 @ 02:11 PM (PST)

Well . . .apotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 09:12 AM (PST)

it's the Windows end user license agreement, nothing moreNeon Samurai | 01/25/2007 @ 11:09 AM (PST)

Oh ok I did not readjackie40d@... | 01/26/2007 @ 04:23 AM (PST)

Berylbburton@... | 01/22/2007 @ 09:49 AM (PST)

bloatware?Jaqui | 01/23/2007 @ 05:26 AM (PST)

According to Redmond, the masses LOVE bloat!jmgarvin | 01/23/2007 @ 07:50 PM (PST)

SuSe Linux comes bloatedjerome.koch@... | 01/25/2007 @ 06:15 AM (PST)

yes they would!Jaqui | 01/25/2007 @ 07:56 AM (PST)

The average consumerjdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 08:46 AM (PST)

you needJaqui | 01/25/2007 @ 10:03 AM (PST)

No it isn'tshardeth | 01/25/2007 @ 03:07 PM (PST)

I am sitting here laughingjackie40d@... | 01/26/2007 @ 05:15 AM (PST)

For the home marketjdclyde | 01/26/2007 @ 06:45 AM (PST)

jd, I just plugged in my Epson Stylus CX 4600Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 12:05 AM (PST)

That is cooljdclyde | 01/27/2007 @ 06:48 AM (PST)

I agree! B-)Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 11:11 PM (PST)

detailsapotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 09:15 AM (PST)

I did give a hint, andJaqui | 01/25/2007 @ 10:01 AM (PST)

That doesn't quite fly.apotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 02:10 PM (PST)

um, kde libsJaqui | 01/25/2007 @ 10:02 PM (PST)

packages vs. metapackagesapotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 12:23 AM (PST)

Easier is not bettersean29in99@... | 01/22/2007 @ 09:59 AM (PST)

now, again what is that?dawgit | 01/22/2007 @ 10:04 AM (PST)

I can get linux working for me....Steven S. Warren | 01/22/2007 @ 10:11 AM (PST)

No, and I apoligize for that....dawgit | 01/22/2007 @ 11:02 AM (PST)

No Hard Feelings....Steven S. Warren | 01/22/2007 @ 11:11 AM (PST)

Well, now I can see the Humor :0dawgit | 01/22/2007 @ 12:10 PM (PST)

Hang in there.shardeth | 01/23/2007 @ 09:32 AM (PST)

There's a reason the Windows forums laughrhomp2002@... | 01/23/2007 @ 11:48 AM (PST)

Yet another of your articles featuring in depthTony Hopkinson | 01/22/2007 @ 10:11 AM (PST)

tutorialsSteven S. Warren | 01/22/2007 @ 10:14 AM (PST)

Most linux questions I'd be struggling as much as youTony Hopkinson | 01/23/2007 @ 02:50 AM (PST)

painfully truekpak44wh@... | 01/22/2007 @ 10:33 AM (PST)

No.kentfx_z | 01/22/2007 @ 03:11 PM (PST)

You do realizedawgit | 01/22/2007 @ 03:23 PM (PST)

You're right about end users.stress junkie | 01/22/2007 @ 03:30 PM (PST)

You're just on the wrongdawgit | 01/22/2007 @ 03:36 PM (PST)

So your phones are as difficult to use as a computer? :Dstress junkie | 01/22/2007 @ 03:42 PM (PST)

Good one :Ddawgit | 01/23/2007 @ 01:06 AM (PST)

Computers aren't getting easier,Palmetto | 01/23/2007 @ 04:54 AM (PST)

re: "how to install an application with one click"Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 07:52 AM (PST)

Its why I quit windowsjackie40d@... | 01/27/2007 @ 12:56 PM (PST)

$299.00 ?MR_DE_01@... | 02/09/2007 @ 05:55 PM (PST)

Ok here is an easy wayjackie40d@... | 02/10/2007 @ 05:08 AM (PST)

Trying free ones first.MR_DE_01@... | 02/13/2007 @ 01:16 PM (PST)

DSLapotheon | 02/13/2007 @ 01:35 PM (PST)

not just Mandrakeapotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 01:21 PM (PST)

Mandrake is just the one I use.Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 01:45 PM (PST)

no problemoapotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 06:40 PM (PST)

npAbsolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 10:35 PM (PST)

"Long-term users"Palmetto | 01/29/2007 @ 05:06 AM (PST)

good pointapotheon | 01/29/2007 @ 10:42 AM (PST)

Your assumption is wrongSteven S. Warren | 01/30/2007 @ 07:24 PM (PST)

How nice of you to say.apotheon | 01/31/2007 @ 02:11 AM (PST)

Which assumption was that?Palmetto | 02/01/2007 @ 03:29 AM (PST)

...Steven S. Warren | 01/30/2007 @ 07:32 PM (PST)

If people are so lazyjmgarvin | 01/22/2007 @ 07:10 PM (PST)

JMGarvin,j.g.camp@... | 01/22/2007 @ 07:51 PM (PST)

you just made my pointkpak44wh@... | 01/23/2007 @ 08:01 AM (PST)

Linux can be easy to use. All it takesTony Hopkinson | 01/23/2007 @ 09:03 AM (PST)

okay, I quitkpak44wh@... | 01/24/2007 @ 10:16 AM (PST)

I never said anything about bestTony Hopkinson | 01/25/2007 @ 02:04 AM (PST)

automatix2Dumphrey | 02/05/2007 @ 08:21 AM (PST)

It's linux that makes the virtual world more safekinpol@... | 03/11/2007 @ 12:10 AM (PST)

Its Fast Getting therejackie40d@... | 03/11/2007 @ 07:42 AM (PDT)

Easier isn't everything for everybody.steve@... | 01/22/2007 @ 05:29 PM (PST)

Not exactly true,j.g.camp@... | 01/22/2007 @ 06:56 PM (PST)

Wake up!Hans Schmidt | 01/22/2007 @ 07:30 PM (PST)

VMware until the last dregs of Windows only functions go awayNeon Samurai | 01/25/2007 @ 11:46 AM (PST)

Linux Is not Easiermikemerch@... | 01/22/2007 @ 07:35 PM (PST)

Your time is precious? What the hell do you call virus cleans, etc.jdumont | 01/23/2007 @ 12:39 AM (PST)

Whatever you have had the most experience withj-mart@... | 01/23/2007 @ 02:29 AM (PST)

there are no absolutes in computingmsgvb@... | 01/23/2007 @ 12:49 PM (PST)

Never had those problems.Palmetto | 01/23/2007 @ 05:04 AM (PST)

Of course I can only base my opinion onj-mart@... | 01/23/2007 @ 11:37 PM (PST)

We agree.Palmetto | 01/24/2007 @ 04:56 AM (PST)

PalmettoDumphrey | 02/05/2007 @ 08:34 AM (PST)

I agree, somewhat.Palmetto | 02/05/2007 @ 10:27 AM (PST)

I guessDumphrey | 02/06/2007 @ 05:25 AM (PST)

There's more to it than that.apotheon | 02/06/2007 @ 12:43 PM (PST)

You are correct!Steven S. Warren | 01/23/2007 @ 06:12 AM (PST)

Is the word choice by accident, or intentionally misleading?jdclyde | 01/23/2007 @ 03:59 AM (PST)

Vista UsageSteven S. Warren | 01/23/2007 @ 06:16 AM (PST)

And my other points?jdclyde | 01/23/2007 @ 06:43 AM (PST)

Point takenSteven S. Warren | 01/23/2007 @ 07:53 AM (PST)

A background questionjdclyde | 01/23/2007 @ 08:36 AM (PST)

PersonallyTonytheTiger | 01/23/2007 @ 05:31 AM (PST)

I Agreekhreha@... | 01/23/2007 @ 05:45 AM (PST)

Tried installing anything not on MS'sTony Hopkinson | 01/23/2007 @ 09:11 AM (PST)

Not all Business are BIGkhreha@... | 01/23/2007 @ 04:44 PM (PST)

Even Small Buisiness should get in a professionalj-mart@... | 01/24/2007 @ 12:00 AM (PST)

My thoughts exactlyTony Hopkinson | 01/24/2007 @ 02:21 AM (PST)

That's the whole point you canTony Hopkinson | 01/24/2007 @ 02:17 AM (PST)

No Arguments from Mekhreha@... | 01/24/2007 @ 08:40 PM (PST)

OK, I have a PC that I can use for my first taste of Linux.florida_kes@... | 01/23/2007 @ 06:05 AM (PST)

Xandros and LinspireSteven S. Warren | 01/23/2007 @ 06:18 AM (PST)

Mandriva was my firstTony Hopkinson | 01/23/2007 @ 09:13 AM (PST)

Ok, thanks!florida_kes@... | 01/25/2007 @ 12:20 PM (PST)

Try ubuntuGarryAllen | 01/25/2007 @ 06:44 AM (PST)

RE: Warning! You might even decide that you like it better than XP.florida_kes@... | 01/25/2007 @ 12:01 PM (PST)

Knoppix, then UbuntuNeon Samurai | 01/25/2007 @ 12:20 PM (PST)

Thanks to all who replied!!!florida_kes@... | 01/29/2007 @ 07:08 AM (PST)

Don't leave us hanging!Palmetto | 01/29/2007 @ 11:01 AM (PST)

You can tell Sheeples just by the wayjackie40d@... | 01/23/2007 @ 06:16 AM (PST)

So, Where Are The Customers?jerome.koch@... | 01/25/2007 @ 06:01 AM (PST)

Poppycock.apotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 09:18 AM (PST)

have you ever got that backwardsNeon Samurai | 01/25/2007 @ 12:52 PM (PST)

Supply/Demandshardeth | 01/25/2007 @ 03:03 PM (PST)

Did you know thatjackie40d@... | 01/26/2007 @ 04:36 AM (PST)

Linux just lacks support.carlomiguelcruz@... | 01/23/2007 @ 07:01 AM (PST)

hardware vendor support would make a big differenceNeon Samurai | 01/25/2007 @ 01:01 PM (PST)

maybe windows is too easyswine@... | 01/23/2007 @ 08:14 AM (PST)

I don't think so.darinhamer | 01/25/2007 @ 09:21 AM (PST)

I both agree and disagree.apotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 09:24 AM (PST)

re: off-site contactapotheon | 01/31/2007 @ 11:53 AM (PST)

In addition, hardware is too inexpensivePalmetto | 01/25/2007 @ 10:44 AM (PST)

I am assuming that...jck | 01/23/2007 @ 08:27 AM (PST)

Hmmm Chocolate and Vanillabookkeeper@... | 01/23/2007 @ 10:35 AM (PST)

Spoken like a true non-believerelectronics_md@... | 01/23/2007 @ 12:27 PM (PST)

You seem to forget SP2 to the rescue?jdclyde | 01/23/2007 @ 05:38 PM (PST)

oh...but don't forgetjck | 01/24/2007 @ 10:11 AM (PST)

And just last weekjdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 06:20 AM (PST)

I like me someDumphrey | 02/06/2007 @ 05:41 AM (PST)

No one said it was however it is just as easy.mat.enders@... | 01/23/2007 @ 08:13 PM (PST)

There is a satisfaction to be had when you learnj-mart@... | 01/24/2007 @ 12:10 AM (PST)

Penguin Powerdphiri@... | 01/24/2007 @ 01:59 AM (PST)

Many users on any system are quite limmitedj-mart@... | 01/24/2007 @ 06:34 PM (PST)

haha MS people just need shotjackie40d@... | 01/24/2007 @ 09:33 PM (PST)

What part of his post did you disagree with?Palmetto | 01/25/2007 @ 04:15 AM (PST)

Sheeples arejackie40d@... | 01/26/2007 @ 04:07 AM (PST)

Not everyone who uses Windows "worships" MicrosoftPalmetto | 01/26/2007 @ 08:03 AM (PST)

Please stop.apotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 09:22 AM (PST)

I swear they aren't advocating FLOSS, they are FUDing the watersjmgarvin | 01/25/2007 @ 11:34 AM (PST)

Rather use LinuxFhMsu | 01/24/2007 @ 11:15 AM (PST)

To be a true professional in IT industryj-mart@... | 01/24/2007 @ 06:54 PM (PST)

I use bothjerome.koch@... | 01/25/2007 @ 05:49 AM (PST)

Try this onejackie40d@... | 01/26/2007 @ 04:31 AM (PST)

Linux Serversj-mart@... | 01/27/2007 @ 11:21 PM (PST)

I'd rather be using Linux too.intj-astral@... | 03/23/2007 @ 07:27 PM (PDT)

easier for beginnersAbsolutely | 01/24/2007 @ 09:01 PM (PST)

Thanks for setting me straightthumbknuckle | 01/25/2007 @ 03:17 AM (PST)

If onlyjdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 08:56 AM (PST)

Which begs the questionjdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 08:58 AM (PST)

Sue Acme for Product LiabilityPalmetto | 01/25/2007 @ 10:48 AM (PST)

Not to mentionjdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 12:12 PM (PST)

MaybeDumphrey | 02/06/2007 @ 05:55 AM (PST)

Linux Desktopsjerome.koch@... | 01/25/2007 @ 05:43 AM (PST)

Another reason.darinhamer | 01/25/2007 @ 09:45 AM (PST)

MSDumphrey | 02/06/2007 @ 06:03 AM (PST)

That is certainly the hardest market for linux to get into.shardeth | 01/25/2007 @ 10:25 AM (PST)

Microsoft is willing to deal with the messdevils_advocate | 01/25/2007 @ 06:37 AM (PST)

Uninformed, incomplete, suggestions....JoeKool24601 | 01/25/2007 @ 08:31 AM (PST)

A good point about stupid namesjdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 08:54 AM (PST)

Ack! Gag! Synergy!!??jmgarvin | 01/25/2007 @ 11:38 AM (PST)

Computers are computersJoeKool24601 | 01/25/2007 @ 02:41 PM (PST)

Linux/unix/bsd/sco/aix would all die awayrclark@... | 01/25/2007 @ 08:43 AM (PST)

I would invite you tojackie40d@... | 01/26/2007 @ 05:06 AM (PST)

Get serious!jtokach | 01/25/2007 @ 10:26 AM (PST)

Users not lazy.darinhamer | 01/25/2007 @ 10:29 AM (PST)

Thank you.Palmetto | 01/25/2007 @ 12:13 PM (PST)

And how about all the follow up support required?jdclyde | 01/25/2007 @ 12:20 PM (PST)

No disagreement from me.Palmetto | 01/25/2007 @ 02:16 PM (PST)

You're right . . .apotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 02:27 PM (PST)

I always enjoy butting heads with you.Palmetto | 01/25/2007 @ 02:46 PM (PST)

Even better . . .apotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 07:08 PM (PST)

We need a team of grandmothers.Palmetto | 01/26/2007 @ 03:21 AM (PST)

Heh...shardeth | 01/26/2007 @ 10:54 AM (PST)

pull them right off?jdclyde | 01/26/2007 @ 07:12 AM (PST)

You're making my point.darinhamer | 01/26/2007 @ 08:09 AM (PST)

A few pointsjdclyde | 01/26/2007 @ 09:16 AM (PST)

I don't think so.darinhamer | 01/26/2007 @ 12:35 PM (PST)

You're making my point, too.Palmetto | 01/26/2007 @ 10:59 AM (PST)

I make a lot of moneyjdclyde | 01/26/2007 @ 12:55 PM (PST)

And...shardeth | 01/25/2007 @ 02:36 PM (PST)

about security . . .apotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 07:19 PM (PST)

I am still a little skeptical...shardeth | 01/26/2007 @ 10:19 AM (PST)

to make a point . . .apotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 12:37 AM (PST)

excellent responsemindilator@... | 01/26/2007 @ 09:30 AM (PST)

Lambasting asideAbsolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 09:13 AM (PST)

elaboration on 'driving into the ground':Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 09:16 AM (PST)

No argument from me.darinhamer | 01/27/2007 @ 07:40 PM (PST)

a couple of caveatsapotheon | 01/28/2007 @ 02:31 AM (PST)

Here, Hear.dawgit | 01/28/2007 @ 08:47 AM (PST)

You forgot to addjackie40d@... | 01/28/2007 @ 08:49 AM (PST)

I am guessing you never heard of OS/2jackie40d@... | 01/28/2007 @ 08:18 AM (PST)

OS/2 revived.!.dawgit | 01/28/2007 @ 08:50 AM (PST)

haha I would toojackie40d@... | 01/28/2007 @ 12:57 PM (PST)

Please, no . . .apotheon | 01/28/2007 @ 03:52 PM (PST)

Heard of it.darinhamer | 01/31/2007 @ 10:49 AM (PST)

In response to yourDumphrey | 02/08/2007 @ 05:41 AM (PST)

It's not about "retro" or "cool".apotheon | 02/08/2007 @ 08:22 AM (PST)

Your rightDumphrey | 02/09/2007 @ 05:17 AM (PST)

Training Helps - Alot.ITGuyy | 01/25/2007 @ 10:48 AM (PST)

...and it never should be.mpaladino | 01/25/2007 @ 10:50 AM (PST)

YOU'LL NEVER GET LINUX TO INSTALLBALTHOR | 01/25/2007 @ 02:30 PM (PST)

YOU'LL NEVER LEARN HOW PUNCTUATION WORKSapotheon | 01/25/2007 @ 07:23 PM (PST)

you are wrong about 2 spaces after the periodmindilator@... | 01/26/2007 @ 12:34 AM (PST)

You were doing so well.Palmetto | 01/26/2007 @ 03:36 AM (PST)

What do you expect from a MAC boy?jdclyde | 01/26/2007 @ 07:23 AM (PST)

Hey now you bigotJamesRL | 01/26/2007 @ 07:48 AM (PST)

I don't have to hate someonejdclyde | 01/26/2007 @ 09:09 AM (PST)

actually..mindilator@... | 01/26/2007 @ 09:12 AM (PST)

Doesn't matterjdclyde | 01/26/2007 @ 01:01 PM (PST)

i don't care, obviouslymindilator@... | 01/26/2007 @ 09:19 AM (PST)

Thanks, I guessPalmetto | 01/26/2007 @ 10:55 AM (PST)

You're, um, sorta right. Kinda.apotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 01:02 AM (PST)

now i'm confusedmindilator@... | 01/29/2007 @ 01:29 PM (PST)

a link for youapotheon | 01/29/2007 @ 03:36 PM (PST)

Periods and Spaces !jackie40d@... | 01/29/2007 @ 05:18 PM (PST)

Different standards.darinhamer | 01/26/2007 @ 07:42 AM (PST)

you are not ignorant and lazy if you don't read books about grammarmindilator@... | 01/26/2007 @ 09:22 AM (PST)

I doubt it.darinhamer | 01/26/2007 @ 12:56 PM (PST)

niftyapotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 01:13 AM (PST)

A great compliment.darinhamer | 01/27/2007 @ 08:07 PM (PST)

I'll let you in on a secret:apotheon | 01/28/2007 @ 02:40 AM (PST)

the only reason i wanted people to read a book on thismindilator@... | 01/29/2007 @ 01:48 PM (PST)

You're right, I would.Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 09:23 AM (PST)

alsomindilator@... | 01/26/2007 @ 09:27 AM (PST)

Now I see.Palmetto | 01/26/2007 @ 11:01 AM (PST)

OKdarinhamer | 01/26/2007 @ 01:02 PM (PST)

reconsider premise.Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 09:31 AM (PST)

Good point.apotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 01:26 PM (PST)

My intent was to save darinhamer from wasting his timeAbsolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 01:54 PM (PST)

No offense taken.darinhamer | 01/27/2007 @ 08:16 PM (PST)

:D Nice one, darin!Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 11:16 PM (PST)

Good point, darinhammer.apotheon | 01/28/2007 @ 02:45 AM (PST)

limited understandingapotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 01:21 AM (PST)

all of my posts on this subject stem frommindilator@... | 01/29/2007 @ 01:21 PM (PST)

Okay, then . . .apotheon | 01/29/2007 @ 04:11 PM (PST)

varying standardsapotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 01:08 AM (PST)

---how punctuation worksgrandpa@... | 01/26/2007 @ 10:04 AM (PST)

Very well putdarinhamer | 01/26/2007 @ 01:06 PM (PST)

Um, dude . . .apotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 12:54 AM (PST)

hehmindilator@... | 01/29/2007 @ 01:33 PM (PST)

That wasn't research.apotheon | 01/29/2007 @ 04:13 PM (PST)

what can i saymindilator@... | 01/30/2007 @ 03:48 AM (PST)

objections, corrections, reflectionsapotheon | 01/30/2007 @ 12:19 PM (PST)

we see this subject from wildly different anglesmindilator@... | 01/30/2007 @ 09:59 PM (PST)

Good thing that's the last time . . .apotheon | 01/31/2007 @ 02:16 AM (PST)

A pen and paper is easier than windowslienaddeetee@... | 01/25/2007 @ 03:38 PM (PST)

or coursesbrooks@... | 01/25/2007 @ 05:11 PM (PST)

I really don't know what to say hererschaefer@... | 01/25/2007 @ 05:21 PM (PST)

Spot on philosophympaladino | 01/25/2007 @ 06:19 PM (PST)

This hasn't gotten enough attention.apotheon | 01/30/2007 @ 12:22 PM (PST)

author's bias is not his only problemmindilator@... | 01/26/2007 @ 12:39 AM (PST)

I think he was trying tojackie40d@... | 01/26/2007 @ 05:46 AM (PST)

i agree mostlymindilator@... | 01/26/2007 @ 09:28 AM (PST)

MandrakeAbsolutely | 01/26/2007 @ 07:12 PM (PST)

He has gotten them before.apotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 01:28 PM (PST)

don't need to......Steven S. Warren | 01/30/2007 @ 07:18 PM (PST)

Kind of snobberyMarie55 | 01/26/2007 @ 04:30 AM (PST)

Kind of goes with the territory.Absolutely | 02/05/2007 @ 04:32 PM (PST)

agreed butjemothy@... | 01/26/2007 @ 05:43 AM (PST)

Disagreed andAbsolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 10:50 AM (PST)

Ok may I suggestjackie40d@... | 01/27/2007 @ 01:05 PM (PST)

No, you may not.Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 01:52 PM (PST)

How about arrogance, then?darinhamer | 01/27/2007 @ 09:03 PM (PST)

Which computer? Whose computer?Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 10:55 PM (PST)

It's all good.darinhamer | 01/30/2007 @ 03:54 PM (PST)

a point of contentionapotheon | 01/28/2007 @ 03:02 AM (PST)

A point of contention to your point of contention.darinhamer | 01/30/2007 @ 03:59 PM (PST)

not exactlyapotheon | 01/30/2007 @ 05:47 PM (PST)

Admittedly, I know nothing of the female mind...Absolutely | 01/30/2007 @ 09:26 PM (PST)

Female mind, easy... :pdawgit | 01/31/2007 @ 02:33 AM (PST)

More convenient, then.darinhamer | 01/31/2007 @ 11:03 AM (PST)

convenience and gendered pronounsapotheon | 01/31/2007 @ 12:14 PM (PST)

Total Nonsensewilko | 01/26/2007 @ 10:47 AM (PST)

Ditto.Absolutely | 01/27/2007 @ 10:52 AM (PST)

A matter of legacyjaicle | 01/26/2007 @ 03:26 PM (PST)

Not easier, for what? Vivek, London is lazy!Absolutely | 01/26/2007 @ 11:49 PM (PST)

excellentapotheon | 01/27/2007 @ 01:25 AM (PST)

Not All..vital_enigma@... | 01/27/2007 @ 01:33 PM (PST)

Focus policy...terry_bower@... | 01/28/2007 @ 06:56 PM (PST)

To davidtristanjackie40d@... | 01/29/2007 @ 02:39 AM (PST)

Thanks for the feedbackdavidtristan@... | 02/03/2007 @ 10:54 PM (PST)

Did you ever think of a search engine ?jackie40d@... | 02/04/2007 @ 07:06 AM (PST)

simple answersapotheon | 02/04/2007 @ 11:37 AM (PST)

a note about ASPapotheon | 02/04/2007 @ 11:46 AM (PST)

Ok here is what I USE !jackie40d@... | 02/04/2007 @ 01:56 PM (PST)

No Doubt Linux is easierj-mart@... | 02/02/2007 @ 01:31 PM (PST)

Question about thatjackie40d@... | 02/03/2007 @ 05:52 AM (PST)

Easy Linux = http://pclinuxos.comlinuxiac | 02/05/2007 @ 06:28 AM (PST)

How to talk to a Linux supporter (if you must)!tony@... | 02/05/2007 @ 11:45 AM (PST)

How ironic . . . (and here's some better advice)apotheon | 02/05/2007 @ 12:45 PM (PST)

WhateverSteven S. Warren | 02/05/2007 @ 01:20 PM (PST)

Let's examine that:apotheon | 02/05/2007 @ 04:50 PM (PST)

Lets get crazy!tony@... | 02/05/2007 @ 05:11 PM (PST)

Apologies to Linux supporters?Palmetto | 02/05/2007 @ 01:16 PM (PST)

You hit the Nail...tony@... | 02/05/2007 @ 01:39 PM (PST)

Actually there are lots, like anybody elseTony Hopkinson | 02/05/2007 @ 03:09 PM (PST)

I'm sure there are, but..tony@... | 02/05/2007 @ 04:38 PM (PST)

About hiring pro-Windows bloggersPalmetto | 02/06/2007 @ 03:17 AM (PST)

There you go again . . .apotheon | 02/05/2007 @ 04:57 PM (PST)

I love that warm fuzzy feeling.apotheon | 02/05/2007 @ 04:56 PM (PST)

Grandma says, "More flies with honey than vinegar"Palmetto | 02/06/2007 @ 03:20 AM (PST)

Ew.apotheon | 02/06/2007 @ 12:28 PM (PST)

I also repiled to Tonyjackie40d@... | 02/06/2007 @ 03:54 AM (PST)

Re: How to talk to a Linux supporterintj-astral@... | 02/05/2007 @ 05:37 PM (PST)

haha Have you made a boo-boojackie40d@... | 02/06/2007 @ 03:46 AM (PST)

Politics and computers79spitfire | 03/25/2007 @ 08:20 AM (PDT)

So I think a lot of us arejackie40d@... | 03/25/2007 @ 02:09 PM (PDT)

It all depends on your point of viewNiklausPfirsig | 02/05/2007 @ 02:46 PM (PST)

That was a Slam Dunk !jackie40d@... | 02/06/2007 @ 04:04 AM (PST)

Cronic WindowsXP problems?davidtristan@... | 02/07/2007 @ 10:25 PM (PST)

I wish I knew whyjackie40d@... | 02/08/2007 @ 05:13 PM (PST)

Thanks for not getting mad at me.davidtristan@... | 02/08/2007 @ 11:03 PM (PST)

I agree.Dumphrey | 02/09/2007 @ 05:30 AM (PST)

So have you noticed thejackie40d@... | 02/09/2007 @ 06:21 AM (PST)

Simply Too Truetony@... | 02/05/2007 @ 02:47 PM (PST)

The difference . . .apotheon | 02/05/2007 @ 05:07 PM (PST)

Linux is just as easy as Windowsintj-astral@... | 02/05/2007 @ 05:22 PM (PST)

Learning a new languagegan | 02/09/2007 @ 06:12 AM (PST)

You should have tried debianNiklausPfirsig | 02/28/2007 @ 11:50 AM (PST)

Nahtony@... | 02/05/2007 @ 05:25 PM (PST)

Probably went off to play a gameintj-astral@... | 02/05/2007 @ 05:40 PM (PST)

"I wonder what the 80% who didn't comment are thinking?"Palmetto | 02/06/2007 @ 05:11 AM (PST)

I think they...intj-astral@... | 02/07/2007 @ 12:46 PM (PST)

You Poor Demented Little BoyHAL 9000 | 02/10/2007 @ 06:08 AM (PST)

DataPunditsdavea0511@... | 02/12/2007 @ 12:19 PM (PST)

Excellent!apotheon | 02/12/2007 @ 04:16 PM (PST)

he he he :)davea0511@... | 02/13/2007 @ 05:03 AM (PST)

Thanks!apotheon | 02/13/2007 @ 01:53 PM (PST)

I like your graph betterjackie40d@... | 02/13/2007 @ 05:22 AM (PST)

That, and the Hokey-Pokey...Absolutely | 03/10/2007 @ 07:24 PM (PST)

So far almost everything elsejackie40d@... | 03/11/2007 @ 06:56 AM (PDT)

23% of responderstracy anne | 03/23/2007 @ 03:25 AM (PDT)

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