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Wow, great article!
Yeah, that sums it up for me pretty well. Noun-based OOP (C#, Java, C++, etc.) has a purpose, but its "real world" benfits are, in most cases, largely applicable to "gang programming" (as that author calls it). For me working on a 2 KLOC app by myself, it's useless. And the question is, "do I want to turn a 2,000 KLOC app into a properly crafted 10 KLOC app with proper OO implementation?" Nope. But if I was in a "gang programming" environment, I would almost *have to*.

On the flip side, I think that "verb-based OOP" (Smalltalk, Ruby) has big advantages for the smaller/less complex project, but they fade when you get more than 2 or 3 developers involved. I remember what happened when you put Perl in front of a 5 person team, mass hysteria. Not that Perl is OOP, but it shares many similarities in terms of the programmer's workflow.

Basically, it seems like "action oriented" languages do not scale well, because they need the developer to be aware of too much, so you get "too many cooks ruin the stew" while "structure oriented" languages do not offer much benefit for small teams/individuals.

I wonder if the proposed advantages of noun-based OOP could be brought to verb-based OOP languges if given an IDE that is instantly networked in a peer-to-peer network, so that it could effectively do real-time version control on a per-function basis, as opposed to a per-file basis. This makes sense to me, since these languages tend to hold the application in relatively few files, which makes traditional version control less useful, and makes it harder for large teams to split the work up.

J.Ja
Posted: 05/23/2009 @ 10:14 AM (PDT)
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Justin James     3
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Read original item: What type of programming language do you prefer?
I enjoy dynamic languages a lotJustin James | 05/21/2009 @ 09:36 AM (PDT)
Programming systems with fast feedback and dynamic modelingMark Miller | 05/21/2009 @ 06:56 PM (PDT)
On that note...Justin James | 05/21/2009 @ 10:53 PM (PDT)
You're not the only one who would say thatMark Miller | 05/22/2009 @ 10:15 PM (PDT)
Wow, great article!Justin James | 05/23/2009 @ 10:14 AM (PDT)
Great quote!Vladas Saulis | 05/25/2009 @ 11:49 PM (PDT)
Fine grained version controlMark Miller | 05/26/2009 @ 08:10 PM (PDT)
I don't think Mr Mansfield analysis is very goodjslarochelle | 05/24/2009 @ 10:25 PM (PDT)
There's a few issues here.Tony Hopkinson | 05/25/2009 @ 03:48 AM (PDT)
Patterns can be abusedjslarochelle | 05/25/2009 @ 05:55 PM (PDT)
More misused from my point of viewTony Hopkinson | 05/26/2009 @ 03:16 PM (PDT)
"Patterns" religionMark Miller | 05/26/2009 @ 08:27 PM (PDT)
Mark: One thing about Patternjslarochelle | 05/28/2009 @ 05:23 AM (PDT)
His analysis is very specificJustin James | 05/25/2009 @ 08:09 AM (PDT)
I did not read his article as being that specificjslarochelle | 05/25/2009 @ 06:18 PM (PDT)
Yeah, stuff can merge on check in...Justin James | 05/26/2009 @ 07:13 AM (PDT)
AOP tools allow this kind of "metadata like" featurejslarochelle | 05/26/2009 @ 10:08 AM (PDT)
Group supportMark Miller | 05/26/2009 @ 08:59 PM (PDT)
Dittoinet32@... | 05/27/2009 @ 02:04 PM (PDT)
I beleve there good and bad OOP problemswadebr | 10/27/2009 @ 10:40 PM (PDT)
OOP is more religion than practical.skykeys | 09/15/2009 @ 11:58 AM (PDT)
Unless you have the encapsulation, I must disagree.mattohare@... | 09/16/2009 @ 05:46 AM (PDT)
OOP is more religion than practical - V2.skykeys | 09/16/2009 @ 06:59 AM (PDT)
Preferred Programming Languagesga6939russell | 06/23/2009 @ 08:10 AM (PDT)
A fundamental aspect!hercules.gunter@... | 05/26/2009 @ 12:36 AM (PDT)
I don't mind case-sensitiveTony Hopkinson | 05/26/2009 @ 03:23 PM (PDT)
C/C is kingKruger.henning@... | 05/26/2009 @ 12:45 AM (PDT)
In todays 'Drag and Drop' artnweke@... | 05/26/2009 @ 01:13 AM (PDT)
D&D Still sucksjose.a.nunez@... | 05/26/2009 @ 12:49 PM (PDT)
Unusual Procedural languages!gep2@... | 05/26/2009 @ 07:17 AM (PDT)
I like languages that don't try to prevent me from putting my foot alaniane@... | 05/26/2009 @ 01:26 PM (PDT)
Well, it depends on your purposesmdhealy@... | 05/30/2009 @ 02:27 PM (PDT)
"blast" Perl bombsgep2@... | 06/12/2009 @ 08:52 AM (PDT)
AlphaFiveskykeys | 09/16/2009 @ 07:16 AM (PDT)
Personal preferenceTony Hopkinson | 05/21/2009 @ 12:54 PM (PDT)
You *are* strangeJustin James | 05/21/2009 @ 10:03 PM (PDT)
Me?, Where did you get that impression?Tony Hopkinson | 05/24/2009 @ 03:37 AM (PDT)
nawJaqui | 05/22/2009 @ 01:17 AM (PDT)
WellTony Hopkinson | 05/24/2009 @ 03:39 AM (PDT)
Never had this sort of bugs...Vladas Saulis | 05/26/2009 @ 09:27 AM (PDT)
I would have said you were strangeJavaman59 | 05/26/2009 @ 12:44 AM (PDT)
and thatJaqui | 05/26/2009 @ 02:45 AM (PDT)
Not a huge fan of *loose* typing...Justin James | 05/26/2009 @ 07:06 AM (PDT)
C is the most powerful versatile high level languageTony Hopkinson | 05/26/2009 @ 09:29 AM (PDT)
It's the sort of thing that can drive you mentalTony Hopkinson | 05/26/2009 @ 09:25 AM (PDT)
Here's to procedural.skykeys | 09/16/2009 @ 07:04 AM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?mustafaozkan77@... | 05/21/2009 @ 10:42 PM (PDT)
Easy to read is code not languageTony Hopkinson | 05/26/2009 @ 03:14 PM (PDT)
What does that look like?inet32@... | 05/27/2009 @ 02:17 PM (PDT)
No but it's probably heretical :DTony Hopkinson | 05/27/2009 @ 02:41 PM (PDT)
Heretic!Justin James | 05/28/2009 @ 08:06 PM (PDT)
Same with VB[.net]/VBAmattohare@... | 05/29/2009 @ 06:22 AM (PDT)
The main reason I used PerlTony Hopkinson | 05/29/2009 @ 05:37 PM (PDT)
Open Source!!!!Maarek Stele | 05/22/2009 @ 10:26 AM (PDT)
java isn't open source.Jaqui | 05/24/2009 @ 01:04 AM (PDT)
Guess you never heard of OpenJDK or Apache thenzdnet@... | 05/26/2009 @ 06:09 AM (PDT)
I'll admit...Second and Goal | 05/26/2009 @ 08:55 AM (PDT)
I'm not a programmer but I will agree with you 0Forum Surfer | 05/26/2009 @ 01:48 PM (PDT)
you missedJaqui | 05/26/2009 @ 09:20 AM (PDT)
Not true ...zdnet@... | 05/27/2009 @ 06:13 AM (PDT)
linksJaqui | 05/27/2009 @ 02:06 PM (PDT)
Not a clone, an implementation ...zdnet@... | 05/30/2009 @ 03:18 PM (PDT)
None of that mattersTony Hopkinson | 05/30/2009 @ 04:37 PM (PDT)
Correctinet32@... | 05/27/2009 @ 02:27 PM (PDT)
I like different languages for different tasksjslarochelle | 05/23/2009 @ 07:56 AM (PDT)
I like dinamic and typeless languages...Vladas Saulis | 05/25/2009 @ 11:03 PM (PDT)
Personally I like diversityjslarochelle | 05/26/2009 @ 04:13 PM (PDT)
Language mattersVladas Saulis | 05/26/2009 @ 10:33 PM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?bragosso@... | 05/26/2009 @ 12:50 AM (PDT)
JAVAaataweel@... | 05/26/2009 @ 12:54 AM (PDT)
Key Process Indicators ?Tony Hopkinson | 05/26/2009 @ 03:27 PM (PDT)
c/c and pythonjmseillon@... | 05/26/2009 @ 01:43 AM (PDT)
c/cpp and pythonjmseillon@... | 05/26/2009 @ 01:45 AM (PDT)
Programming in Pythonandrews@... | 05/26/2009 @ 01:47 AM (PDT)
Im with you!tjdupreez@... | 05/26/2009 @ 02:08 AM (PDT)
I will be learning Python soonJustin James | 05/26/2009 @ 07:03 AM (PDT)
Been using IronPython for a bitTony Hopkinson | 05/26/2009 @ 09:34 AM (PDT)
The indent is what makes Python an heresy for mejslarochelle | 05/26/2009 @ 10:38 AM (PDT)
The type I would use according to my purposehtroque@... | 05/26/2009 @ 02:38 AM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?cvanrooyen@... | 05/26/2009 @ 02:41 AM (PDT)
I admit that I do like strong types and compiling.mattohare@... | 05/26/2009 @ 03:18 AM (PDT)
AbsolutelyTWB3 | 05/26/2009 @ 06:26 AM (PDT)
Me tooTony Hopkinson | 05/26/2009 @ 09:44 AM (PDT)
Measure of Success is not lack of mistakes...mattohare@... | 05/27/2009 @ 02:29 AM (PDT)
IndeedTony Hopkinson | 05/27/2009 @ 04:13 AM (PDT)
TALetronm | 05/26/2009 @ 04:10 AM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?rayweglein@... | 05/26/2009 @ 06:09 AM (PDT)
Java because I'm Javanesehasan_ms@... | 05/26/2009 @ 09:44 PM (PDT)
Java for enterprise development. Ruby/Perl for scripting/admin taskssuyalpravesh@... | 05/26/2009 @ 11:15 PM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?lomsadef | 05/27/2009 @ 02:53 AM (PDT)
Something has to delimit a statementTony Hopkinson | 05/27/2009 @ 04:23 AM (PDT)
I like JavaScriptweising | 05/27/2009 @ 04:22 AM (PDT)
Any language with intellisense...Shaunny Boy | 05/29/2009 @ 07:16 AM (PDT)
Don't waste your time on Perl....gep2@... | 05/30/2009 @ 01:12 PM (PDT)
For my work, there's lots of existing Perl codemdhealy@... | 05/30/2009 @ 03:10 PM (PDT)
RUBY is king!johanne@... | 05/27/2009 @ 08:24 AM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?inet32@... | 05/27/2009 @ 01:55 PM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?piolin70@... | 05/27/2009 @ 07:41 PM (PDT)
C and C are not rubustTony Hopkinson | 05/28/2009 @ 01:57 PM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?ignacia84 | 05/29/2009 @ 09:13 PM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?heba.shurrab@... | 06/07/2009 @ 04:39 AM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?clementsiby@... | 06/11/2009 @ 07:37 PM (PDT)
RE: What type of programming language do you prefer?LordOrion | 09/30/2009 @ 05:27 AM (PDT)
type of language I likewadebr | 10/27/2009 @ 10:56 PM (PDT)

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