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Agile requirements discovery: Tell me a story
ZatoichiMaster - 07/07/09 Please read the original article.
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With just enough knowledge of ERP systems to say that new solutions for a company our size would cost about $250K, I tell him the costs along with the upgrade cost which is about $75K, though the upgrade would basically stink big ones. He says he's not scared of $250K but doesn't give me an exact budget to work with anyway.
I did research online on how to evaluate new systems, and a lot of IT pros said to perform internal business analyses and talk to various users on what we really need and what our problems are. After doing a week of interviews, the COO told me I was not allowed to interview people as it took up too much of their time, although this was the only way to find out what our req'ts were. And if I couldn't handle searching myself, he'd find someone else who could. Now realizing he me incompetent, I say, no problem and I'll continue on my own.
So, I started contacting ERP vendors and every one asked me what our needs are. I really don't know except generally speaking: inventory, shipping/receiving, reporting. I sit through dozens of demos, sometimes 2-3 hours long and narrow the number of possible solutions to 4.
They each send me fairly accurate quotes, all from $220K to $270K, in the range I first stated. Our COO says fine, keep researching. I want to now schedule onsite visits with some of the vendors' customers to get a feel for how the implementation and usage is going. My COO says he can't let me leave the premises in case a fire breaks out. So, we're investing a quarter million in a company without doing proper due diligence. Without doing visits, he says I need to narrow the selection down to 2 possibles.
My response is, since he won't let me visit vendors' references, let's bring in those 4 vendors to do demos with other people in the company which will help me narrow the vendors to 2. Plus, it's a good idea to get others involved as I only support the system but don't actually use it. He gives me the same old, too much time and if I can't handle it, he'll find someone who can. The latter part is a great morale booster by the way.
I narrow it down to 2 vendors despite not knowing anything about our req'ts, not involding anyone else and not doing any visits, of which I'm fairly proud. I get more accurate numbers from the vendors and bring them to my COO, who says they're way too much (despite him saying months ago that $250K didn't scare him) and that the quotes need to be brought down.
The vendors now bring down their costs to $180K and $195 with a firm written commitment to not go over this amount (economy, wow!). My COO mulls this over for a few days, without giving me any update on his thoughts. Then he calls me to his office last Thursday (Friday off) and says, "I talked to our current ERP people. Showed them the prices that we were willing to pay to replace them, and they knocked down their upgrade price to $50K. We're going with them."
He does this all without telling me anything. It was his plan from the beginning to use those other quotes as leverage to squeeze out a lower upgrade price. The upgrade stinks big time and is almost useless and a waste of money. And, I wasted the last four months of my work life. God I love my job.
1. ERP Systems
ZatoichiMaster - 07/07/09 So, my company has this outdated, green screen ERP system that no longer fits our needs. Our COO, who runs the company, told me one day that he'd like to look at new systems. And that's all he told me, nothing more. Being in IT and only marginally involved operationally, I did not really know what our true business req'ts were.With just enough knowledge of ERP systems to say that new solutions for a company our size would cost about $250K, I tell him the costs along with the upgrade cost which is about $75K, though the upgrade would basically stink big ones. He says he's not scared of $250K but doesn't give me an exact budget to work with anyway.
I did research online on how to evaluate new systems, and a lot of IT pros said to perform internal business analyses and talk to various users on what we really need and what our problems are. After doing a week of interviews, the COO told me I was not allowed to interview people as it took up too much of their time, although this was the only way to find out what our req'ts were. And if I couldn't handle searching myself, he'd find someone else who could. Now realizing he me incompetent, I say, no problem and I'll continue on my own.
So, I started contacting ERP vendors and every one asked me what our needs are. I really don't know except generally speaking: inventory, shipping/receiving, reporting. I sit through dozens of demos, sometimes 2-3 hours long and narrow the number of possible solutions to 4.
They each send me fairly accurate quotes, all from $220K to $270K, in the range I first stated. Our COO says fine, keep researching. I want to now schedule onsite visits with some of the vendors' customers to get a feel for how the implementation and usage is going. My COO says he can't let me leave the premises in case a fire breaks out. So, we're investing a quarter million in a company without doing proper due diligence. Without doing visits, he says I need to narrow the selection down to 2 possibles.
My response is, since he won't let me visit vendors' references, let's bring in those 4 vendors to do demos with other people in the company which will help me narrow the vendors to 2. Plus, it's a good idea to get others involved as I only support the system but don't actually use it. He gives me the same old, too much time and if I can't handle it, he'll find someone who can. The latter part is a great morale booster by the way.
I narrow it down to 2 vendors despite not knowing anything about our req'ts, not involding anyone else and not doing any visits, of which I'm fairly proud. I get more accurate numbers from the vendors and bring them to my COO, who says they're way too much (despite him saying months ago that $250K didn't scare him) and that the quotes need to be brought down.
The vendors now bring down their costs to $180K and $195 with a firm written commitment to not go over this amount (economy, wow!). My COO mulls this over for a few days, without giving me any update on his thoughts. Then he calls me to his office last Thursday (Friday off) and says, "I talked to our current ERP people. Showed them the prices that we were willing to pay to replace them, and they knocked down their upgrade price to $50K. We're going with them."
He does this all without telling me anything. It was his plan from the beginning to use those other quotes as leverage to squeeze out a lower upgrade price. The upgrade stinks big time and is almost useless and a waste of money. And, I wasted the last four months of my work life. God I love my job.
Reply
Geez, what does he do when you go on vacation? When do you get dental or doctor's appointments? What if you need car repairs?
Your COO is clearly an idiot. You don't say what your company does, but would he tolerate another department head dropping a quarter of a million on a tool sight unseen? Does he buy his cars without taking test drives?
I wouldn't wait for him to find someone else. Get your resume together, use vacation time to go to interviews, and let him try finding a replacement willing to work with your antiquated system.
1.1. WTF?
Palmetto - 07/07/09 'My COO says he can't let me leave the premises in case a fire breaks out."Geez, what does he do when you go on vacation? When do you get dental or doctor's appointments? What if you need car repairs?
Your COO is clearly an idiot. You don't say what your company does, but would he tolerate another department head dropping a quarter of a million on a tool sight unseen? Does he buy his cars without taking test drives?
I wouldn't wait for him to find someone else. Get your resume together, use vacation time to go to interviews, and let him try finding a replacement willing to work with your antiquated system.
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I guess you now know how he operates.
Great resume item- researched possible ERP replacement.
1.2. You got schooled.
Jcritch - 07/07/09 Now you know why he did not want to involve other people.I guess you now know how he operates.
Great resume item- researched possible ERP replacement.
Reply
As soon as he threatened you, you needed to make a decision. Was staying around going to be worth more than getting out?
You decided to stay and in return you got a point on your resume.
Now you need to put that point to work and go find another job.
Your COO has proven that he works by threat. And you've proven that you will cave when he threatens. So now you have to call him on it. You have to leave and let him find someone else who can do the job.
Or alternatively, you can stay. And the next time he says jump you have to say "how high?".
After all, you've already shown him that your job is more important to you than your profession.
Glen Ford, PMP
http://www.trainingnow.ca
http://apps.learningcreators.com/blog
1.3. Threats
PMP'sicle - 07/07/09 Hate to say it but you just learned an important lesson.As soon as he threatened you, you needed to make a decision. Was staying around going to be worth more than getting out?
You decided to stay and in return you got a point on your resume.
Now you need to put that point to work and go find another job.
Your COO has proven that he works by threat. And you've proven that you will cave when he threatens. So now you have to call him on it. You have to leave and let him find someone else who can do the job.
Or alternatively, you can stay. And the next time he says jump you have to say "how high?".
After all, you've already shown him that your job is more important to you than your profession.
Glen Ford, PMP
http://www.trainingnow.ca
http://apps.learningcreators.com/blog
Reply
Angst over the upgrade reaches a boiling point. In order to placate the screaming masses, the COO delivers a sacrificial offering---YOU!
With the COO at the helm, the company begins exploring a 'partnership' with a competitor. That partnership leads to an out-and-out sale, and the firm is closed. The COO is given a golden parachute as he is kicked out of the corporate door along with everyone else.
The two most destructive types of holes in the universe are black and @$$. This guy seems to fit the definition of the latter---don't get sucked into his gravitational pull! Get the resume together, and start searching!
1.4. Get out now
NotSoChiGuy - 07/07/09 Gazing into the ChiGuy crystal ball, I see the following events unfolding:Angst over the upgrade reaches a boiling point. In order to placate the screaming masses, the COO delivers a sacrificial offering---YOU!
With the COO at the helm, the company begins exploring a 'partnership' with a competitor. That partnership leads to an out-and-out sale, and the firm is closed. The COO is given a golden parachute as he is kicked out of the corporate door along with everyone else.
The two most destructive types of holes in the universe are black and @$$. This guy seems to fit the definition of the latter---don't get sucked into his gravitational pull! Get the resume together, and start searching!
Reply
a) You're the only person who knows where the fire extinguisher is
b) Hid the fire extinguisher as job security leverage
c) The only person there who knows the number to 9-1-1
1.5. Sneaky...
Kam Guerra - 07/08/09 "My COO says he can't let me leave the premises in case a fire breaks out."a) You're the only person who knows where the fire extinguisher is
b) Hid the fire extinguisher as job security leverage
c) The only person there who knows the number to 9-1-1
Reply
1.5.1. Uh, you do realize he doesn't mean a literal fire
Palmetto - 07/08/09 but is using the phrase as a euphemism for having an IT emergency, right?
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1.5.1.1. It's fair play
Kam Guerra - 07/08/09 If his boss can be a retard, then so can he.
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1.5.1.1.1. how does
ZatoichiMaster - 07/10/09 how does my boss being a retard mean i'm a retard?
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2. RE: Agile requirements discovery: Tell me a story
anirbank2000@... - 07/08/09 This is all fine, but the User Stories create a whole lot of complications for the Development team. Being in the business user's language they lack the clarity needed by the developer, and also this constant changes create more problems. So the formal requirement is still needed.
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2.1. Agile methodology
viweed@... - 07/08/09 Apparently you do not know anything about Agile Methodology, nor about what it takes to develop a successful application. Where did you get the idea that the USERS do NOT know what the marketplace wants? BTW, if your developers cannot write technical specs based on storyboards, etc. FIRE them. It's what I would do... actually I would not have hired such incompetents in the first place. Hmmm. Are you doing your development in, let me guess, INDIAN??
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BTW a lot of users don't know what the marketplace wants nor do they know the difference between what they WANT and what it is they truly NEED. It's the responsibility of the requirements gatherer to know when this is the case. This approach is a good way to bridge that gap when this is the case.
2.1.1. Ignorant
cherylstukey@... - 07/08/09 I love it when ignorant people show their true colors. INDIAN? I suppose you were trying to imply that the developers were in India? They don't speak 'Indian' in India you ignoramous (and yes that is a made up word)!BTW a lot of users don't know what the marketplace wants nor do they know the difference between what they WANT and what it is they truly NEED. It's the responsibility of the requirements gatherer to know when this is the case. This approach is a good way to bridge that gap when this is the case.
Reply
You are right on as far as most, if not all, projects are concerned. This is a major issue, and, if I may summarize what you have nicely explained, the main problem with the solutions (templates, software, etc.) that help manage requirements is that they lack the collaboration and communication aspects combined with SIMPLICITY of the solution that makes it acceptable to both technical and non-technical audiences.
What we have noticed is that the templates and documents get sent across in emails, etc., requirements clarified over phone calls and chat, and no single repository to easily manage all of that.
And while software solutions tend to solve that aspect, as do (to some extent) the templates you pointed out, they either become way too complex or way too expensive. The complexity probably is needed in only 20% of the projects.
The solutions need to have the flexibility to meet the needs of the mature Agile teams as well as of those that @anirbank2000 pointed out. In the end, if it is not simple, it will not be used by most teams.
We have experienced all of what you pointed out and have launched a product, Celeroo Req 'n Spec, barely a couple of weeks ago to solve the needs of such teams. The power lies in its simplicity and flexibility to allow customers and development teams discuss any requirement or feature, while managing versions and changes and creating an automatic traceability matrix between the requirement and the detailed features written for each requirement.
I would like to invite you to try the application at http://www.celeroo.com/reqnspec/requirements-management-software.html. I would certainly appreciate your insights vis-a-vis all the other templates, etc. that you have seen. Of course, there is a 15-day free trial for everyone and your readers can see if this helps them resolve any issues they might be facing.
I do not want my response to be seen as a marketing ploy but given that it is such a major issue and we have launched a new solution recently on similar lines as this article, I wanted to put my two cents in...and certainly wouldn't mind getting a few dollars in return if people liked the application and saved thousands of dollars
3. You have hit the nail on the head
Celeroo - 07/08/09 Rick,You are right on as far as most, if not all, projects are concerned. This is a major issue, and, if I may summarize what you have nicely explained, the main problem with the solutions (templates, software, etc.) that help manage requirements is that they lack the collaboration and communication aspects combined with SIMPLICITY of the solution that makes it acceptable to both technical and non-technical audiences.
What we have noticed is that the templates and documents get sent across in emails, etc., requirements clarified over phone calls and chat, and no single repository to easily manage all of that.
And while software solutions tend to solve that aspect, as do (to some extent) the templates you pointed out, they either become way too complex or way too expensive. The complexity probably is needed in only 20% of the projects.
The solutions need to have the flexibility to meet the needs of the mature Agile teams as well as of those that @anirbank2000 pointed out. In the end, if it is not simple, it will not be used by most teams.
We have experienced all of what you pointed out and have launched a product, Celeroo Req 'n Spec, barely a couple of weeks ago to solve the needs of such teams. The power lies in its simplicity and flexibility to allow customers and development teams discuss any requirement or feature, while managing versions and changes and creating an automatic traceability matrix between the requirement and the detailed features written for each requirement.
I would like to invite you to try the application at http://www.celeroo.com/reqnspec/requirements-management-software.html. I would certainly appreciate your insights vis-a-vis all the other templates, etc. that you have seen. Of course, there is a 15-day free trial for everyone and your readers can see if this helps them resolve any issues they might be facing.
I do not want my response to be seen as a marketing ploy but given that it is such a major issue and we have launched a new solution recently on similar lines as this article, I wanted to put my two cents in...and certainly wouldn't mind getting a few dollars in return if people liked the application and saved thousands of dollars
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3.1. Right People
paul.simmons@... - 07/08/09 Not everyone in IT can take stories and translate them into specs but this is a good idea.
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Regards,
Abhijit S. Vagga
4. RE: Agile requirements discovery: Tell me a story
a_vagga@... - 07/08/09 Very informative. I would still like not to abolish the use of UML or other established methodologies of user requirement gathering ahd spec generation. Rather I would now want to club these 2 to make my job much more effective.Regards,
Abhijit S. Vagga
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What better way of engaging and learning from the end user than listening them? It seems obvious but would be so powerful!!!
5. RE: Agile requirements discovery: Tell me a story
angela@... - 07/08/09 Often the simple things work bestWhat better way of engaging and learning from the end user than listening them? It seems obvious but would be so powerful!!!
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>, <>, etc - most users don't understand them anyway.
6. RE: Agile requirements discovery: Tell me a story
Robert.Grenier@... - 08/12/09 If the use case diagram gets too big - separate into packages. For presentation to users, stick with basics - don't use <- Quick Reference: Linux Commands
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